Night weaning and nutrition. Too busy to nurse vs self weaning

Too Busy to Nurse vs Self Weaning.
First of all, an apology to S - I'm afraid my message probably wasn't all that helpful. There must be nothing worse than sending out an SOS because your baby is screaming, only to hear that someone else's baby doesn't do that... I think all we first time mothers go through so much soulsearching about whether we're doing things right. It does help to eliminate (if you can) people from your entourage who tell you that your baby is crying too much. I had someone come to help me when A was a few months old and crying quite a bit, and who told me that there was something wrong with my baby and we needed to go to the emergency room because she was crying so much.
Well, the fact was that when I held A, she didn't cry  - but that woman made me extremely unsure of myself. After two days, I told her things were just not working out and I can't tell you the relief I felt not to hear someone telling me I was doing things wrong. On the subject of showers and what have you - A is almost always in whatever room I'm in, whether the shower, the toilet, whatever. I'm lucky, however, in that she no longer needs to be held 24 hours a day. Which brings me to my question and my anxiety.
As you all have probably gathered, A is much more independant then I ever expected a baby to be. She's intensly curious about everything, fascinated by new noises, new sights, new physical sensations (and yes it's confirmed - she's walking at not even 8 1/2 months) and new foods... My problem is that I am quite concerned that A is going to wean too early. Getting her to nurse during the day is an incredible challenge. I already talked to you about this in December, H, but since then it's gotten even more difficult. I've tried everything I can think of - always nursing before meals rather than after, offering her my breasts whenever possible (she'll usually nurse for about 30 seconds, almost as though she's doing me a favour - if I can get to 5 minutes I consider it a triumph!) nursing in a darkened room so there are no distractions... I carry her quite a bit in the wrap but she's always been adamant about not wanting to nurse in it. She's never had anything else to drink - no bottles of juice or water. I'm getting thankful for those nighttime nursing sessions because at least I know she's getting my milk then. Even at night she nurses very quickly - in 10 minutes she's emptied both breasts so maybe she's getting more than I think during the day? On days when she is particularly uninterested in nursing, I tend to add some pumped milk to her food to be sure she's getting some. Is this all normal? Or is this a problem? Is there something I should be doing differently? Or is this the angst of a new mother who's not sure of herself?
It's so hard to know what is normal and when I hear everyone talk about their babies nursing all the time, I think I must surely be doing something wrong...
Of course, it's a triumph that she's even nursing at all, since she hysterically refused my breast for the first five weeks of her life and maybe this is all linked... Okay, I'm going to stop burbling and send this out... Thanks for any input!
Bises,
A

Dear A,
Thankyou for your other message by the way (I replied to it but it somehow didn't get sent properly and then it was lost....)
It's so exciting that A is walking!!
I'm more and more convinced that babies are all SO different, nothing is NORMAL. What is normal for A is not normal for another baby.
It seems to me you've always followed A's lead. In the beginning she got huge amounts of "peau à peau" and carrying. And you've followed her lead in putting her down (letting her get mobile, not surprisingly she's walking very early (like  R) You began feeding her solids when SHE was interested. You even worked out she preferred not to be sleeping too near you. You worked out she needed to suck but she didn't want to suck on your breast. All this actually came as a surprise for you as it went against what you had expected and perhaps even dreamed of (having read all the attachment parenting-type books that we know so well).

If you had NOT followed her lead it would have been as crazy as scheduled feeding, letting her cry to sleep or all the other unnatural practices people sometimes use to make babies "conform" to their idea of what a baby should be. You allowed your daughter to be the "mode d'emploi" and she has not turned out to be the kind of 8 month-old who needs 24-hour a day carrying and non-stop nursing. Some babies are like that but some aren't.
This ties in with something you mentioned in your other message about the label "attatchment parent", which I had written to you in the message that got lost. The label is a bit misleading in that the
"attachment" bit of it refers to the needs of newborn babies to create an attachment (on-going from that within the womb).
Parents who permit this attachment, so the theory goes, give their child a sense of security which in a healthy parent-child relationship will eventually and very gradually give way to autonomy and detachment. So after a while the term "attachement parent" becomes a bit redundant. If "attachment parenting" is to be a worthwhile thing, it surely doesn't mean forcing you baby to do what she doesn't want to do. Eg. carrying her when she would rather be romping around getting hold of things, or nursing her exclusively when she obviously wants to get other food into her mouth. Or making her sleep with you when she clearly has more restful sleep if she's in her own bed.

I don't think prolonged nursing, co-sleeping, carrying etc (what some might consider to be part of the attachement parenting tool-kit) are ends in themselves, rather they are ways you can respond to your child's needs (at the same time as making life easier for yourself). If a child clearly doesn't want these things it would be absurd to force these on her.
From what you have told us you are doing everything you can to get her to nurse, it sounds like it's been like this for some time now. Her lack of interest may be, as you suggested to me once, that she didn't get used to the breast as a comforter in the early weeks.
Maybe the trauma she had at the clinic which seemed to put her off the breast in the first place did contribute to that. We will never know. But maybe it has nothing to do with that. Maybe she is just moving on in her own time to other things. Maybe she will get interested in it again. I don't think this lack of daytime nursing means she will wean soon. She may, she may not. Child-led weaning is just that. Following her lead. (Reminding her occasionally just in case she's forgotten, doesn't count as forcing, I would add! So go for it!)
Putting your milk in her food is a great idea, and you can even try and add some in on days she's nursing satisfactorily. This is a way of keeping your milk supply bountiful (pumping) as there is always the danger she could wean simply because the milk flows less ("dries up" as some people say). Since their is an advantage to keeping breastmilk in the child's diet for as long as possible, this is a justifiable way of tricking her into drinking more of it!
I knew one mother who, when her second child was born started to pump her milk to give her older child (aged about 2) in a cup even though she was already weaned. She was convinced it was helping maintain her child's health.
Anyway it sounds like those night feeds are a blessing : just think if you had night weaned her? She probably would be virtually weaned by now.
It is important that when we hear other mothers talking about what is normal for their babies we don't immediately assume something is wrong with ours (or with us). It's true whether it's about "doing her nights" or how many feeds she has a day (there's no rule). Trust you baby.
lots of love
R

Hi,
You do not need any applogies to me. All mother's experience can enrich me and encourage me. Before I was so fragile. I thought of myself being a bad mother. Why does she cry even in my arms now since I am participating this forum, I can say to myself, “well my baby is quite demanding but it's good because I can bond with her stronger through all difficulties and problems.” In doing so, I gain more confidence.
Thank you for your story. Hearing your experience keeps me going.
Being a mother is not as easy as lots of people may think.
S

Initially my baby was always on my breast. Almost 24 hours a day, right up to three months. She has started to decrease that frequency recently. Now she just drinks for about 5 minutes!! I have the same feeling, that she does not drink enough but I guess she must be getting enough.
I understand your feeling quite well. I am sometimes frustrated because my baby refuses to drink my milk. At the same time, I see that she is growing well. She still loves my breast, I think. I am sometimes scared too that she might stop taking my breast.
Sorry I cannot be of any help, but I guess if your bb is developping well, then you should not worry about it so much. 20% of bbs get weaned before the age of 1 year in Japan. I hope it will not happen to me.
S

I had lots of breast-feeding issues when F was teeny and spoke to L.C. quite a lot (as my lactation consultant), and one of the interesting things she told me was that babies become more and more efficient nursers, so that around 8 or 9 months they can indeed drain a breast in 5 minutes.  I don't think that's anything to worry about!  Your rapid nursers are just growing up!  F hardly nurses at all during the day, usually, but makes up for it at night.
M.M.J.

I just wanted to say that this is quite a common age for bbs to be "just too busy to nurse right now mummy". I've heard A LOT of (non attachment) mothers saying that their bbs "self weaned" at around this age.
Everything that everyone has said so far is totally right. Its just that the majority of people are not aware of attachment parenting, natural parenting, etc. so they think that this phase is "self weaning"
Self weaning doesn't happen until after the age of 2. I mean, real self weaning, not nipple preference.
What a lot of parents think is self weaning is "just too busy...." or a nursing strike, or getting bottles instead of cups, or pacifiers.. so a lot of parents just stop offering. As they don't or haven't night fed for a long time, that huge window is also eliminated.
Up to 60% of a baby's needs are taken in night feedings...
Everything you have mentioned tells me you are hitting all angles that you could hit!

I agree with you and everyone else. Don't worry. I'm not worried for you, I have a very strong feeling you are totally following her lead, and even if it means that she's taking in a lot in 5 minutes and or getting 60% at night, you are totally ensuring her needs.
R made an important point : reminding her from time to time is not force feeding.
Thats a good idea to take her into a quiet place with fewer distractions too. I remember when A was at this same phase. The wrap helped a lot for me during that phase. It was just about the only time he was bored enough to nurse.
Pumping and making sure she gets your milk in food is a great idea. The only thing I would say is to watch out for is giving stuff (your milk or anything else) in a bottle as opposed to cups, due to risk of nipple preference.
Good for your for your perseverance and sensitivity.
Lots of love, C.

It might not help but...
My bb does not like to feed horizontally now. Before, when she was tiny, yes but not anymore. Now, each time its time to nurse, she is busy interested in other things and she refuses to feed but she needs to be fed! When my instinct tells me that she is hungry now, I put myself in a sofa, I sit down and I put her on my lap. She sits face to face, looking at me. I show her my breast and offer, “would you like some? She is interested, she touches it and puts it her in mouth, and gives it a try, I win!!!! She looks away now and then, so she does not feed continuously, but off and on ; 30 seconds, 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 1 minute, 10 seconds, then she has finished!
Also when she wakes up, she is still half sleep, so she is not yet interested in other things so I can feed her uniterupted. When she is half sleep, she accepts the breasts easily.

During the night, she feeds a lot mostly, but some nights, she does not feed a lot (twice or three times). That makes me worried, but at night I imagine she is getting enough. I sleep with her. I do not know how many times my bb drinks at night, I don't count. I sleep and she helps herself. Everyone keeps asking me how many times, how many times? Is that so important? I ask myself. Anyhow, I think she is getting enough. According to one book, as long as she moves around, she is active, then I should not worry.
S

Between jetlag, teething and his newfound capacities at flipping around and scooting to places, J in the last 2-3 days has decided he doesn't want to nurse more than a minute or so at a time during the day.  He then goes on to marathon bouts during at night. Is this enough to keep up a milk supply?  How much do babies need to nurse to keep up a good supply and do they need to be doing it at regular intervals?  I must be blind, but couldn't find any answers in Motherly art of breastfeeding.  Thanks for any info you may have.
L.L.

As long as you are your baby's ONLY supply of nourishment it doesn't matter whether he nurses less during the day than at night. Obviously if you are giving him botlles whether it's, water, juice, formula or whatever then your supply could decrease with the decreased frequency of nursing. Try reading Dr Sears The Baby Book for more info or ask a LLL leader such as C.
J.B.

Hi. So sorry you are going through this. It is fairly common though.
you'll find it under... Nursing strikes, page 142 in the latest edition; (the seventh).
In fact, it describes exactly your situations, with varying scenarios of course, and also describes exactly S's "plan of attack" plus
more techniques that may or may not be feasible for everyone (such as nursing in a swimming pool).
Basically, it signals that something is wrong. (for a nursing strike) O.K. I know, you're saying "YES, I KNOW, SO WHAT IS WRONG?!" which of course I can't tell you. Neither can your friendly family doctor.
In short, at under a year, if bb is nightfeeding which can make up 60% of a bb's intake, any short sucks during the day stimulate, so I suppose even if a bb fed only 3 times in a day but was feeding at night, the breasts would figure it out.
Breasts and our hormones are amazing. Even if there is total "weaning" for a short period (up to 40 days) it is not considered relactating, just building up a milk supply when you start up again. Milk is totally absorbed after 40 days of no demand whatsoever. Then it is considered relactating.
Lots of love, C.